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	<title>Comments for In the Library with the Lead Pipe</title>
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	<description>The murder victim? Your library assumptions. Suspects? It could have been any of us.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:12:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9473</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9473</guid>
		<description>If I might go somewhat off-topic and rant a bit more, I&#039;d say that the main problem facing humanity and progress on any level is the fact that to greater and lesser degrees humans are--across the board--irrational.  And since people in admin are merely human, they are bound to implement all sorts of irrational practices and make all manner of irrational decisions (and they do).  Luckily, those at the &quot;to a lesser degree&quot; end of the spectrum keep things moving in a generally positive direction most of the time; however, meaningful progress is an incredible lofty goal.

In a sense, humanity has been making the same mistakes and such since the advent of opposable thumbs.  We seem stymied in terms of our evolution as a species and choose to delude and content ourselves with the notion that advancements in the tools we use to kill each other, keep each other alive a little longer, communicate with each other, etc., reflect the continued evolution of our species.  The reality is that building more powerful weapons, drugs, apps and whatnot is not progress; the reality is that we&#039;re failing again and again to make meaningful philosophical leaps.  As Bill Hicks put it, &quot;Evolution did not stop with the development of thumbs....It&#039;s time to EVOLVE IDEAS&quot;.

But humans are irrational and almost universally in denial of this fact.

Sorry to wax so cynical, but it&#039;s getting to a point where the folks who are &quot;to a greater degree&quot; irrational are trashing the ecosystem to such an extent that all other considerations seem moot and I&#039;m incredibly pessimistic about the future.

To quote Bill Hicks again, &quot;We&#039;re a virus with shoes&quot;.  And the world will likely be a better place when we&#039;re gone.  Regardless, I&#039;m glad that these conversations are happening, that there are people looking at disparate points of view, thinking critically and all that, for this kind of exchange is truly the only way we&#039;ll move forward.  If only the majority of the people on this planet felt the same way.  Yeah, I&#039;m extremely cynical, but maybe, just maybe, it&#039;s not too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I might go somewhat off-topic and rant a bit more, I&#8217;d say that the main problem facing humanity and progress on any level is the fact that to greater and lesser degrees humans are&#8211;across the board&#8211;irrational.  And since people in admin are merely human, they are bound to implement all sorts of irrational practices and make all manner of irrational decisions (and they do).  Luckily, those at the &#8220;to a lesser degree&#8221; end of the spectrum keep things moving in a generally positive direction most of the time; however, meaningful progress is an incredible lofty goal.</p>
<p>In a sense, humanity has been making the same mistakes and such since the advent of opposable thumbs.  We seem stymied in terms of our evolution as a species and choose to delude and content ourselves with the notion that advancements in the tools we use to kill each other, keep each other alive a little longer, communicate with each other, etc., reflect the continued evolution of our species.  The reality is that building more powerful weapons, drugs, apps and whatnot is not progress; the reality is that we&#8217;re failing again and again to make meaningful philosophical leaps.  As Bill Hicks put it, &#8220;Evolution did not stop with the development of thumbs&#8230;.It&#8217;s time to EVOLVE IDEAS&#8221;.</p>
<p>But humans are irrational and almost universally in denial of this fact.</p>
<p>Sorry to wax so cynical, but it&#8217;s getting to a point where the folks who are &#8220;to a greater degree&#8221; irrational are trashing the ecosystem to such an extent that all other considerations seem moot and I&#8217;m incredibly pessimistic about the future.</p>
<p>To quote Bill Hicks again, &#8220;We&#8217;re a virus with shoes&#8221;.  And the world will likely be a better place when we&#8217;re gone.  Regardless, I&#8217;m glad that these conversations are happening, that there are people looking at disparate points of view, thinking critically and all that, for this kind of exchange is truly the only way we&#8217;ll move forward.  If only the majority of the people on this planet felt the same way.  Yeah, I&#8217;m extremely cynical, but maybe, just maybe, it&#8217;s not too late.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Emily Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9472</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9472</guid>
		<description>I think this is really interesting that people might be engaging in consensus, but aren&#039;t thinking of it as such.

I have also been in situations where I disagreed with the need for more meetings--where&#039;s the compromise between consensus and efficiency?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is really interesting that people might be engaging in consensus, but aren&#8217;t thinking of it as such.</p>
<p>I have also been in situations where I disagreed with the need for more meetings&#8211;where&#8217;s the compromise between consensus and efficiency?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Emily Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9471</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9471</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kathleen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Kathleen!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Emily Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9470</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9470</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad that you took the time to comment, Juan, and show the other side of what can happen in consensus processes. There are many arguments out there that point to consensus hindering democratic process. For instance, I was just sent a link to a piece by Howard Ryan called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.docspopuli.org/pdfs/consensus.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Blocking Progress: Consensus decision making in the anti-nuclear movement.&lt;/a&gt; While I haven&#039;t yet had the time to read it, I will be interested to see if this piece points to the privilege problem that Jo Freeman discusses.

I agree that there are times when we just can&#039;t get things done by consensus and things can break down. At this point, what can be borrow from consensus that will still enable us to have some collective decision-making, but that won&#039;t block progress? Also, how can we engage in these practices at work and collaborate with an administrative body that will respect this process, instead of ignore it? (see my previous comment in response to Kim discussing the contract between my union and my university&#039;s administration).

I&#039;m going to give that Reich a read...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad that you took the time to comment, Juan, and show the other side of what can happen in consensus processes. There are many arguments out there that point to consensus hindering democratic process. For instance, I was just sent a link to a piece by Howard Ryan called <a href="http://www.docspopuli.org/pdfs/consensus.pdf" rel="nofollow">Blocking Progress: Consensus decision making in the anti-nuclear movement.</a> While I haven&#8217;t yet had the time to read it, I will be interested to see if this piece points to the privilege problem that Jo Freeman discusses.</p>
<p>I agree that there are times when we just can&#8217;t get things done by consensus and things can break down. At this point, what can be borrow from consensus that will still enable us to have some collective decision-making, but that won&#8217;t block progress? Also, how can we engage in these practices at work and collaborate with an administrative body that will respect this process, instead of ignore it? (see my previous comment in response to Kim discussing the contract between my union and my university&#8217;s administration).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to give that Reich a read&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Emily Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9469</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9469</guid>
		<description>Kim, this is a really interesting and exciting conundrum that you have. What would our organizations look like if we had the support to do re-org for future thinking? I think one of the things that you might think about is what the contracts between your administration and its reporting bodies say. I discovered, via a discussion with a colleague at MPOW, that our union contract discusses faculty governance-- but that in contract, our faculty body can make any recommendation it wants to administration, but administration has every right to completely ignore those recommendations. It&#039;s almost like being in a right-to-work state.

You might be able to talk to the folks over at Gustavus Adolphus and see how they are liking the re-org that they did to use collegial decision-making; they might have some tips for you as you consider your future thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim, this is a really interesting and exciting conundrum that you have. What would our organizations look like if we had the support to do re-org for future thinking? I think one of the things that you might think about is what the contracts between your administration and its reporting bodies say. I discovered, via a discussion with a colleague at MPOW, that our union contract discusses faculty governance&#8211; but that in contract, our faculty body can make any recommendation it wants to administration, but administration has every right to completely ignore those recommendations. It&#8217;s almost like being in a right-to-work state.</p>
<p>You might be able to talk to the folks over at Gustavus Adolphus and see how they are liking the re-org that they did to use collegial decision-making; they might have some tips for you as you consider your future thinking.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Emily Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9468</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9468</guid>
		<description>You are most welcome. I&#039;m glad to hear of the resources on nonviolent communication you&#039;re making available to the community.

In general, I think we can learn a lot about intentional communication in libraries and in every workplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are most welcome. I&#8217;m glad to hear of the resources on nonviolent communication you&#8217;re making available to the community.</p>
<p>In general, I think we can learn a lot about intentional communication in libraries and in every workplace.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9467</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 17:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9467</guid>
		<description>I gotta admit, as wonderful as this all sounds, and as much as I&#039;m all for democratic decision-making, I&#039;ve rarely seen it work at my library.  Committee work here suffers from consensus decision-making.  It drags out decision-making and is an inefficient use of staff time.

The thing is, our director wants staff buy-in.  As such, she pushes committee decision-making.  Committee membership reflects the diversity of the library by director design (i.e. she likes to assign persons from multiple departments rather than just those with hands-on knowledge).  This means that a committee devoted to, for instance, redesign of the library website might include persons who have no knowledge of web design or the principles of site architecture.  Those who have a better grasp of design principles often end up locking horns with those who think it&#039;s as simple as formatting a Word document.  I&#039;m simplifying, but you get my point.

Did I mention that the decision-making process drags on when decisions are made in committee?  So much wasted staff time, which means wasted taxpayer money.

I would prefer that a very small group of people (2-3 people) with hands-on knowledge of the issue come up with recommendations that can be pitched to a larger group rather than making decisions within a larger group/committee.

When I saw this post, I immediately thought of recent NYTimes article that critiques group decision-making: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html

Worth a read.

Honestly, I prefer work-democracy (see Wilhelm Reich&#039;s &quot;The Mass Psychology of Fascism&quot;).  In short, those who do the work make the decisions.  People not DIRECTLY involved in the work are not involved in the decision-making process.  You can provide others with opportunities for input--and should--but it should never be about involving persons from disparate departments, etc simply to make people feel like they had a hand in the decision-making.

And I hate it when admins use committees to create the illusion of consensus decision-making, but then toss aside committee recommendations if they don&#039;t jive with the output they were looking for before committee membership was even delegated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta admit, as wonderful as this all sounds, and as much as I&#8217;m all for democratic decision-making, I&#8217;ve rarely seen it work at my library.  Committee work here suffers from consensus decision-making.  It drags out decision-making and is an inefficient use of staff time.</p>
<p>The thing is, our director wants staff buy-in.  As such, she pushes committee decision-making.  Committee membership reflects the diversity of the library by director design (i.e. she likes to assign persons from multiple departments rather than just those with hands-on knowledge).  This means that a committee devoted to, for instance, redesign of the library website might include persons who have no knowledge of web design or the principles of site architecture.  Those who have a better grasp of design principles often end up locking horns with those who think it&#8217;s as simple as formatting a Word document.  I&#8217;m simplifying, but you get my point.</p>
<p>Did I mention that the decision-making process drags on when decisions are made in committee?  So much wasted staff time, which means wasted taxpayer money.</p>
<p>I would prefer that a very small group of people (2-3 people) with hands-on knowledge of the issue come up with recommendations that can be pitched to a larger group rather than making decisions within a larger group/committee.</p>
<p>When I saw this post, I immediately thought of recent NYTimes article that critiques group decision-making: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html</a></p>
<p>Worth a read.</p>
<p>Honestly, I prefer work-democracy (see Wilhelm Reich&#8217;s &#8220;The Mass Psychology of Fascism&#8221;).  In short, those who do the work make the decisions.  People not DIRECTLY involved in the work are not involved in the decision-making process.  You can provide others with opportunities for input&#8211;and should&#8211;but it should never be about involving persons from disparate departments, etc simply to make people feel like they had a hand in the decision-making.</p>
<p>And I hate it when admins use committees to create the illusion of consensus decision-making, but then toss aside committee recommendations if they don&#8217;t jive with the output they were looking for before committee membership was even delegated.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consensus Decision-Making and its Possibilities in Libraries by Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2012/consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-9464</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3471#comment-9464</guid>
		<description>Will be recommending to my classes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will be recommending to my classes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What are Libraries For? by To Infinity and Beyond! &#124; Leabharlann</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2011/what-are-libraries-for/comment-page-2/#comment-9463</link>
		<dc:creator>To Infinity and Beyond! &#124; Leabharlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=2774#comment-9463</guid>
		<description>[...] McGuire, H. (2011). What are libraries for? [Weblog] In the Library with the Leadpipe. Retrieved from: http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2011/what-are-libraries-for/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] McGuire, H. (2011). What are libraries for? [Weblog] In the Library with the Leadpipe. Retrieved from: <a href="http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2011/what-are-libraries-for/" rel="nofollow">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2011/what-are-libraries-for/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Occupy Librarianship: 5 Variations on a Theme by Best of Fall Semester 2011 &#171; Hack Library School</title>
		<link>http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2011/occupy-librarianship/comment-page-1/#comment-9462</link>
		<dc:creator>Best of Fall Semester 2011 &#171; Hack Library School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/?p=3287#comment-9462</guid>
		<description>[...] Occupy Librarianship: 5 Variations on a Theme [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Occupy Librarianship: 5 Variations on a Theme [...]</p>
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